In his letter to the diocese, the local bishop said:

“It may seem legalistic, but the words that are spoken, along with the actions that are performed and the materials used, are a crucial aspect of every sacrament,” the diocese said on its website. “If you change the words, actions or materials required in any of the sacraments, they are not valid.”

Now do Novus Ordo episcopal consecrations.

What would Pope Pius XII think about those, I wonder?

14 thoughts on “Hmmm …”

  2. I am genuinely an ignoramus trying to make sense of things. I believe there is something to this argument about episcopal consecrations and that is why I continue to ask questions here.

    I appreciate your distinction that you include that you are a layman and am great full for your posts, responses and patience. I frequently find myself in a sea of competent arguments ranging from twitter that Thomas says what is essential is still there, to the Dimond brothers (who claim there is no one left with a valid office).

    My question is how many times has form and matter changed from the time of the apostles? From my understanding the matter is the imposition of hands, the form the words.

    I too am left with the “how long O Lord” deep in my heart.

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    1. The rites have changed in small ways over great periods of time. It’s not that they can’t change, but rather how they can change while still remaining valid. Leo XIII addressed this issue in Apostolicae curae, when he declared that the Anglican changes rendered their rites invalid.

      Then Pius XII concisely explained the irreducible minimum for each rite in Sacramentum Ordinis https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius12/p12sacrao.htm

      The debate centers on whether the changes deviate too much from, or withhold an essential element of this infallible teaching.

      My personal opinion is that the episcopal consecrations very clearly do, the the rest of the rites are arguably valid.

      Of course, if episcopal consecrations are invalid, Satan would mind the other rites remaining valid, because, eventually, they’d be just words uttered by a lay man who mistakenly believes he has been ordained.

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  3. Not saying it happened, but Bergoglians will be furious he resigned anyway.

    I’ve read baptism is a sacrament we can perform in an emergency when saying; I Baptise thee in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, Amen.

    Ny niece is a good kid, but left unbaptised by atheist parents.
    If I could do a Baptism on her, without her knowledge as she’d tell on me, it would be a joyful good deed done.

    But I’m not sure if a hand must be in contact with the head, so I wonder if I can use a water hose from a distance to avoid being overheard?
    Or feign tripping with a glass of water onto her head.. With the shock, she wouldn’t hear what I say!

    Any other ideas are welcome.

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    1. Unfortunately, my sisters all left the faith for Protestantism many years ago. A couple of them thought it would be a good idea to let their kids decide when and if they’d like to be baptized.

      My mom baptized them all in the bathroom as infants.

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      1. I had a little laugh there thinking of them trying to get you to believe in the Rapture!
        But good on your mom, mine had brought the niece’s older brother to a Priest of the Novus Ordo, which I think should be ok. Sadly didn’t repeat.

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        1. They never seem to want to explain Our Lord’s direct rejection of their heresy in Matthew 13:30:

          “Suffer both to grow until the harvest, and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers: Gather up FIRST the cockle, and bind it into bundles to burn, but the wheat gather ye into my barn.”

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    2. Dear Pat
      As it’s been well over a week since Michael’s post was put up, I hope you see this reply.
      Unfortunately, any Baptism performed by a layperson, unless in case of emergency – that is – in danger of death, is invalid according to the law of the Church. Such secret Baptism of a child, although the intention behind it may be good, is in violation of Church law because Catholic parents, being the first educators of their children, have not only the prerogative, but the responsibility to see to the training of their child in the Catholic Faith once he or she is Baptized. To fail in this responsibility is an abuse of the Sacrament, and a grave sin.
      I know how you feel. I am sorry. I am in a similar position, myself.

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